Topic: Hello World!

Hey everyone.

I'll be frank and admit that I'm a bit underage. I never get a good night's sleep monophasically--I average six and a half hours, which is enough to survive for a week or so before I need a day to catch up. I'm never exhausted but I'm pretty much constantly stuck with a vague sense of tiredness, and I figured that's not really a good sign. So can getting some good REM sleep polyphasically be that much worse for me than getting consistently crappy monophasic sleep? (And Everyman 3 does have two full sleep cycles in its core, correct?)

I've been poking around the internet for information about polyphasic sleep for a while now, and I think I'm going to try adapting to Everyman 3 over spring break (starting April 8th or so). My tentative schedule is 6:20, 12:20, 6:00, then 10:00 to 1:00 for my core; the six hour break between my first two naps worries me a bit but neither of them can be shifted more than a few minutes in either direction (I have to leave for school by seven and lunch doesn't start until 12:16ish).

I only have a bit more than a week to get reasonably used to Everyman before school starts again, and I am really not willing to risk being a ton more tired than usual. How much of a chance do you think I have of being able to get past the worst of the sleep-deprivation in a week? And more importantly, is anyone thinking of adapting sometime vaguely around the same time as me who wants to be my alarm/zombie mode buddy?

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Re: Hello World!

I really hate to be negative, but you've got only a slim chance of being past your worst day within a week. People's worst days seem to range from 4-9, but most of the 4's I've seen were from people doing uberman. People on Everyman tend to have their worst day on days 7-9. (I haven't done a poll or anything so this is only my impression from reading the google mailing list for 6+ months)

If you can already take naps, then you have a better chance of doing it.

On the plus side, you may find it slightly easier to deal with sleep dep than others.

If you do try it, don't expect to be back to your current level of mental performance for at least a month.

As for your schedule-- it will probably be much more socially convenient for you to have a nap at 10 and take your core from 3:20-6:20. However, you will probably be quite groggy after your core for at least a month, so it may be better as you have it. A six hour gap is not ideal but is certainly not outside the realm of possibility. I do 5:30 gaps on E4 and it seems to be working.

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Re: Hello World!

How old are you? Just wondering, I'm also underage =p
And good luck, although a week definitely isn't enough, for me 9 days wasn't.

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Re: Hello World!

Would it be doable if I didn't oversleep, or do you think it would be better for me just to wait until the summer? Nine days should be the Saturday at the tail end of break, so if it gets better from there on, I might still have a chance.

I'll probably start my 6 pm naps today or tomorrow. I thought about having my core right before school but it would probably be better for me if I could tell myself to have all of my homework done before I have my core, and then have some time in the morning free.

I'm just a teensy bit shy of sixteen. What about you?

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Re: Hello World!

' and I am really not willing to risk being a ton more tired than usual.'

Sorry, but I don't think polyphasic sleep is for you, then. You're basically doing a deprivation experiment without medical controls and without knowing what the long-term consequences are, if there are any. And, with Everyman you have pretty much no chance to adapt in 9 days even with a perfect adaption, and pretty much no one has a perfect adaption, it just feels TOO bad to be in Zombie mode. Most people need several failed attempts and weeks or even months before they adapt, and in that time they're often constantly tired due to oversleeps.

You should, however, after 9 perfect days be quite functionable. The question is whether that would carry you over the day with pretty much just one nap. You can probably forget it if you have to shift even those naps. Hard exercise, or maybe whole-day school trips, can do that easily.

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Re: Hello World!

> You should, however, after 9 perfect days be quite functionable.

I have to disagree with that, when I originally adapted last year I made maybe one small mistake in the first nine days. By day nine it was so bad I had to add a 4th nap. The 9th day was the worst for me.

@lyris-- I strongly recommend you obtain permission from your parents before you try this.

I won't discourage you from trying, but just be aware that what you're attempting is difficult and if you can pull it off in such a short time, you'll be in the minority. Also, I think there's some evidence that teenagers need more sleep than those a little older-- you might need 4 naps with a three hour core.

Last edited by lavalamp (2010-03-12 12:20:37)

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Re: Hello World!

Im turning 17 this summer, and haven't succesfully adopted to anything as of yet.
I thought I would be able to adapt during a 9 day break, and you can check my blog on how it went. You have the odds against you.

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Re: Hello World!

Is it terribly bad that I'm just stubborn to want to try this more because of the challenge? (Maybe challenge is an understatement...) There's definitely a huge chance I'll have to drop this somewhere along the way, but it's possible to succeed. Theoretically.

My mother knows what I'm trying and she's not terribly fond of it but she understands. I think. I probably will end up putting in another nap at some point, but I'm not sure where it would fit yet.

@Rasmus: Why is polyphasic sleep not for me? My first post was rather unrealistic, in hindsight (I'm so glad I decided to introduce myself and not just dive in), but the point is still valid. I don't want to go into school if I'm not out of zombie mode, but Monday should be around day 11 for me. Even if I'm not remotely close to 100%, assuming that I can only improve after day nine or ten, it should be doable.

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Re: Hello World!

I just think that the challenge alone isn't enough of a motivation to make it through adaption. You'll have several moments where you'll feel really bad, physical AND psychical- for example, when you oversleep your first time for a few hours (and it will happen). I'm sure that all motivation of yours will be gone then, unless you have some kind of important reason you do polyphasic sleeping.

Second reason, if you don't want to take any risk, polyphasic sleeping is probably not good for you either. Experimental sleep-deprivation plans that are related to mind-changing are for risk-takers almost by definition.

And even if you *start* to come out of Zombie mode by Day 9-11, you'll drop back into it some times most likely, when you oversleep.
I'm still in school either, though in Germany and in my senior year, I'm already through my finals, but I was going through two polyphasic attempts while in school, and it didn't affect my grades at all. While you will be more tired in school, maybe, you'll also have all the time in the world to do homework and research... it's hard to spend all that new time.

And third, if advice like that keeps you from trying it anyway, polyphasic sleeping isn't for you either  wink
I'd be glad to try and help you along in your adaption, and I'm sure most others around here will as well.
I did two (failed) Uberman attempts, that lasted roughly 2-3 weeks, either of them, one pretty successful Everyman 3 adaption (I was on it for the last three weeks and didn't feel tired at all adapting directly from my failed Uberman attempt), and now I'm going off Everyman and on a new schedule just for the kick of it. Yeah, being sleep deprived can be fun, but in an interesting, not in a pleasant way. But it does tell you a lot about your body.

God, I'm writing quite confused. Could be because I had just 7-8 hours of sleep in unregular nap times during the last 3 days...

Oh.. one advice, is it possible to reschedule your naps so that your core covers most of the night? IE, 1-4 or 2-5? For me that's the worst period. Simply doing your core at 3:20 to 6:20 might work too. Essentially, you don't want to do your core during a time in which you wouldn't be in Zombie mode anyway, you want to cover your worst time of the day with it, because you'll always sleep for it, unlike with a nap.

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Re: Hello World!

We all are stubborn, that's why we are here. Go for it! You'll most likely fail, but you'll learn a lot in the process! big_smile

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Re: Hello World!

Lyris, please disregard all above statements. When people tell you that you will fail, and you listen, you will most definitely fail. If you ignore the people that are against you, and stay positive, you have a much greater chance of succeeding. I have been very successful for 8 months on the hardest schedule (dymaxion) and I too am only 17. Polyphasic sleep has little to do with your physical strength compared to mental strength. When I started, I was told by everyone that I would not make it. Other polyphasers told me that no one had done it before, and I wouldn't be able to, friends and family told that I would not be able to go even two weeks with only getting 2 hours of sleep a day. I brushed off all these comments, saying that they were the stupid ones, not me. Am I one in a million? Possibly. Was I really the stupid one? Probably. But none of that mattered/matters to me. With enough determination and mind power, anybody can succeed at polyphasic sleep.

So as long as you have approval from your parents, go for it. Tell the people who don't believe in you to screw off, and just go for it. If you do fail, just get right back out and keep trying. It's gonna be hard, but just keep looking forward and realizing how awesome it will be when you succeed.

Last edited by shortyman333 (2010-03-13 16:36:44)

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Re: Hello World!

Oh well, shorty, he asked what we thought of his chances. Just talking into an echo chamber isn't the most healthy way to come to a decision either.

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Re: Hello World!

Actually, I really appreciate everyone's being honest. It never hurts to be realistic, and there's no point in being falsely encouraging if that just means I'm going to fail a little later, is there?

Of course, I'm not trying this just for the challenge (dear god, I'm not that insane); I actually made a long, rambly list of why I was going to go through with it. And while I'll probably end up dropping into zombie mode at some point, I refuse to plan for it. Why should I plan for oversleeping where I should be planning to avoid it? big_smile

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that I should to move my core. I am a natural middle-of-the-night person though, so that shouldn't be a terribly bad issue.

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Re: Hello World!

lyris wrote:

...while I'll probably end up dropping into zombie mode at some point, I refuse to plan for it.

Trust me, if you don't have a pre-planned method for dealing with it then you'll most likely be stuffed when it hits you - when you're in that state you can't think properly, and quite frankly can't plan your way out of a paper bag.

By all means be optimistic, but you should have a list of things to do while in zombie mode to keep you occupied and awake - if you don't, you'll just decide to go to sleep instead. However much your conscious mind is in charge now, when you're a zombie it doesn't really have much say in what happens.

"...people will sleep extra if they can, just like they'll have a second helping of pie if you let them. The existence of a second piece of pie on your plate is hardly an indicator that you're starving!" --PD

Re: Hello World!

Oh, and prepare mentally for the oversleep(s), don't get too discouraged when one appears, something that is almost inevitable.

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Re: Hello World!

Oops. I meant planning for dropping back into zombie mode after I start to come out of it, not just zombie mode in general. I'm starting to come up with a plan for zombie mode in general, but I'll have to keep adding to it.

I think all the logic that originally came with that idea has fled. I'll rethink this before I start and come up with a better plan b.

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Re: Hello World!

hatten wrote:

Oh, and prepare mentally for the oversleep(s), don't get too discouraged when one appears, something that is almost inevitable.

I actually disagree with this statement. Oversleeps are very bad, and should not be taken lightly. You probably should prepare for oversleeps, but you should definitely get discouraged when one appears. I only overslept once during my adaptation (besides the drug-induced one the night before), and after that oversleep, I got very discouraged and decided to punish myself by adding another 3 miles to my normal 5 mile bike ride. The extra work-out practically killed my body, but since I told myself (and meant it) I would add more mileage anytime I overslept, I never even came close to oversleeping again. If I would have just went on with my day saying "Ah, no big deal, it's just an oversleep", my body would have realized "hey, I should oversleep more often" and I probably would have.

In conclusion, prepare for oversleeps, but do not take them lightly. Get very discouraged and very pissed off at yourself if you oversleep. Make sure your body knows that oversleeping is a big deal and should not happen again.

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Re: Hello World!

If your goal is to adapt as quickly as possible, then I agree with shorty-- you can't afford any oversleeps. However, my own goal is to adapt with the smallest amount of deprivation as possible. And in that case, I'm much more relaxed about oversleeps. I figure as long as it's not at the same time every day, my body shouldn't adapt to it and it won't harm me in the (very?) long term.

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Re: Hello World!

I fell off the schedule for 3 days when I got my first oversleep. It discouraged me a lot, and I'm not a "problematic sleeper" that got really good reasons to do this.

But, I will take in mind what you said, I'll think out something evil to do to myself.

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